[Salix-main] So... what now?

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[Salix-main] So... what now?

Pierrick Le Brun
"We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Since we all had a few days to ponder things we could now probably more calmly take stocks of our situation in the aftermath of the clash that occurred between George and Cyrille after the 'screwed up repo' episode.

After some extensive exchange with some of you, (including George and Cyrille) either by phone, chat or mail, here are in no specific order of importance some things that came to my mind. 

* George has been out of the scene now for a few days and has considered dropping the whole project. However after having invested in Salix many thousands of hours for many years in a row, this is not a decision anyone would take in a rush. I do not want to speak for George, but he is not particularly relishing that prospect and is not intent on taking such a decision lightly (George, if you read this, do feel free to correct or complete).

* Cyrille, is still very pissed by George's impatience and what to him feels like dictatorial unilateral moves and decisions.

* Quite honestly, I am very confident that they will both be able to talk things over and work things out together. I know for a fact that they both really appreciate each other so like in a family or a couple, sometimes sparkle may fly, but most time, everyone forgives and forget and keeps on being a family (ask my wife or kids, or yours  ;-) )

* Without both George and Cyrille, Salix wouldn't be Salix, period! Now this is true of course of many others of us too, but to some lesser degree, even if that is difficult to measure, I mean, it wouldn't get very far without extra packagers, translations, package testing, documentation, forum participation, servers, websites, etc... (and time would fail to speak of every single contribution, bigger or smaller, that helped make Salix what it has become through the years).

* Although we have a rather good technical organization with github, sourceforge, transifex, and some precise packaging tools, protocols, etc. we have a rather poor communication and basically no existing common roadmap.

* If I may be bold, this above point could be symptomatic of our classical leadership structure where everything rests on the shoulder of one 'providential man'. I mean no matter how providential he may be, I can only imagine how I could possibly maintain more than 600 packages, while being on top of every single security bugfix, contributing extensively to the forum, developing a few nifty utilities, staying sweet and calm when some calamities hit the repo and/or the forum, and constantly inspiring my team to contribute and work collectively. Let's face it, such a system is simply not viable and is bound to collapse one day, sooner or later.

* A year ago, I was in charge of organizing a new election for Salix project leader. For many reasons, I did not. This could actually turn out to be a good thing. In fact, the last thing I would want to do today is organizing an election and honestly I do not believe it is possible for any providential man to fulfill that role alone. Rather I would like to help our entire team reconnect and work in a collegial fashion. And since George will be out of the picture for a few more days (weeks?), we could in the meanwhile see how we can hold the fort together. That way once he is back, we will continue to do it together with him so that he does not feel that he has to do it all by himself, neither will anyone feel like he does everything unilaterally.

* I suspect that if we take on all the chores that he took care of silently day in and day out, we will immensely appreciate him and forgive some of his occasional impatient and frustrated words or moves. By the same token, I also suspect that when he returns, he might immensely appreciate letting go of some of his responsibilities and be able to devote himself fully on some of the technical organization or tools of Salix which he does so amazingly well.

* Here is the start of a list of things we need to tackle in Salix land at the moment. Please feel free to complete that list, give your opinion how to best go about it, or how you are already taking care of it.

-> Cyrille has almost completely finished re-writting Salix Live Installer and need some help with its testing. Marc-Paul, you may also want to help re-read the new code?
-> BTW, we actually need a testing department. It need to be organized from scratch with an actual person responsible among other things to design a definite protocol that testers will follow. Anyone?
-> Cyrille also has his hands full with other aspects of the LiveCD, so he will need help with LiveClone, Marc Paul, if you want, Cyrille could tell you what needs to be done and you could start playing with it ;)
-> If no one gets around to it before me, I'll keep maintaining LiloSetup and transform it in BootSetup (adding a Grub option to Lilo's one)

While work is being done in the background on the Live CDs architecture, we need to advance on the 'regular' versions:
-> Dimitris need help testing SalixKDE version which is basically ready for release, once it has been tested thoroughly.
-> We have no one working on SalixLXDE yet. Anyone?
-> I have heard nothing about SalixFluxbox. Kerd? Ax? Are you still working on it or would you like someone else to step in? If so, anyone?
-> Salix Rat Poison ?
-> Salix Mate ?
-> We also need to keep current on security and bugfixes. Anyone would like to keep tabs of those?
-> Anything else ?

Just for information, Tomoki has started working on the 14.0 new documentation and we should see some of the early mock-up soon, that should be inspiring! Tomoki, don't hesitate to ask if you need specific help, for example from Tim, regarding the Ratpoison section or anyone else with anything else.

That's all I can think of to get the ball rolling. BTW, I will be away for a few days (like usual), but I'll try to lurk in the evenings or pipe in a bit if I find some time, but I might not be around much until the end of next week.

:-)

Pierrick

I





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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

jayseye
Thanks for the detailed update, Pierrick. For now I'll just respond to
the questions addressed to me:

On 1/27/13, Pierrick Le Brun <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -> Cyrille has almost completely finished re-writting Salix Live
> Installer and need some help with its testing. Marc-Paul, you may also
> want to help re-read the new code?

Yes, please send a link and I'll be glad to read / test the code.

> -> Cyrille also has his hands full with other aspects of the LiveCD, so
> he will need help with LiveClone, Marc Paul, if you want, Cyrille could
> tell you what needs to be done and you could start playing with it ;)

Yes, to repeat my previous reply, e-mail works best for my schedule.
We could communicate either here on [salix-main], or via private mail,
whichever is most appropriate for each message.

Regards,
Marc (jayseye)

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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

Tim Beech
In reply to this post by Pierrick Le Brun


Dear all,

I've kept out of this discussion for obvious reasons, but you are
having it in public, so for what it's worth (and as the distro's
top-posting newbie ;)) I'll just say that it would be a real shame if
you guys couldn't sort this out. Words spoken in haste may be repented
at leisure. Maybe some things were said that needed to be aired, but
they weren't said in the best way. It seems productive to focus on the
real issues not the ugly way it came out. The Salix team shouldn't
follow the path of the Zenwalk team, a few years ago. Some changes may
well be needed (and what you say makes utter sense, Akuna), but it
strikes me that perhaps because of that history, Salix already has a
strong collegial spirit, even if it wasn't formalised and isn't always
consistent.

Another thing that strikes me (as a structural problem) is that several
important team members have either gone or sharply reduced their input,
at least for now. That is both inevitable and unsustainable. The only
solution I can see is to have a more open route and more support for
inducting new team members. I'm not a candidate because I don't have the
experience, but look how Marc stepped up *when the need was explicitly
stated*.

I vaguely remember a "mentoring scheme" being aired in the last team
meeting minutes. The trouble with this sort of thing is it means more
work for somebody, and the new people involved need a certain skill set
as well as enthusiasm. I don't know how you deal with that. But it seems
worth thinking about to secure the future of Salix. My own experience of
starting out as a packager was that I got a lot of help, but only once I
just got going and started, even without knowing what I was doing. Maybe
that's the way of things in the open source world, but Salix is free to
set its own tone. It would have really helped, for instance, if someone
had just said, "Ok, now package these ten". I actually wrote a python
script to identify as-yet-unpackaged items with no unpackaged deps. And
ok, maybe there's a "cultural " issue here too: new packagers bring new
packages, and stay out of other people's repos. But is that the best
approach? A concrete case: Phil announced his departure. Wouldn't it
be good to take a decision about allocating those packages for 15.0? I
don't know what happened to them for 14.0.

The collegial spirit Akuna mentioned is also seen in the forum where
courteous and knowledgeable help is always to be had. That is, users are
treated as part of the community. I personally think Salix's ethos is
just as important as its high technical quality. Please don't throw it all away
over some rash words.

Tim

Sun, 27 Jan 2013, Pierrick Le Brun wrote:

> "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
>
> Since we all had a few days to ponder things we could now probably more calmly take stocks of our situation in the aftermath of the clash that occurred between George and Cyrille after the
> 'screwed up repo' episode.
>
> After some extensive exchange with some of you, (including George and Cyrille) either by phone, chat or mail, here are in no specific order of importance some things that came to my mind. 
>
> * George has been out of the scene now for a few days and has considered dropping the whole project. However after having invested in Salix many thousands of hours for many years in a row, this
> is not a decision anyone would take in a rush. I do not want to speak for George, but he is not particularly relishing that prospect and is not intent on taking such a decision lightly (George,
> if you read this, do feel free to correct or complete).
>
> * Cyrille, is still very pissed by George's impatience and what to him feels like dictatorial unilateral moves and decisions.
>
> * Quite honestly, I am very confident that they will both be able to talk things over and work things out together. I know for a fact that they both really appreciate each other so like in a
> family or a couple, sometimes sparkle may fly, but most time, everyone forgives and forget and keeps on being a family (ask my wife or kids, or yours  ;-) )
>
> * Without both George and Cyrille, Salix wouldn't be Salix, period! Now this is true of course of many others of us too, but to some lesser degree, even if that is difficult to measure, I mean,
> it wouldn't get very far without extra packagers, translations, package testing, documentation, forum participation, servers, websites, etc... (and time would fail to speak of every single
> contribution, bigger or smaller, that helped make Salix what it has become through the years).
>
> * Although we have a rather good technical organization with github, sourceforge, transifex, and some precise packaging tools, protocols, etc. we have a rather poor communication and basically no
> existing common roadmap.
>
> * If I may be bold, this above point could be symptomatic of our classical leadership structure where everything rests on the shoulder of one 'providential man'. I mean no matter how providential
> he may be, I can only imagine how I could possibly maintain more than 600 packages, while being on top of every single security bugfix, contributing extensively to the forum, developing a few
> nifty utilities, staying sweet and calm when some calamities hit the repo and/or the forum, and constantly inspiring my team to contribute and work collectively. Let's face it, such a system is
> simply not viable and is bound to collapse one day, sooner or later.
>
> * A year ago, I was in charge of organizing a new election for Salix project leader. For many reasons, I did not. This could actually turn out to be a good thing. In fact, the last thing I would
> want to do today is organizing an election and honestly I do not believe it is possible for any providential man to fulfill that role alone. Rather I would like to help our entire team reconnect
> and work in a collegial fashion. And since George will be out of the picture for a few more days (weeks?), we could in the meanwhile see how we can hold the fort together. That way once he is
> back, we will continue to do it together with him so that he does not feel that he has to do it all by himself, neither will anyone feel like he does everything unilaterally.
>
> * I suspect that if we take on all the chores that he took care of silently day in and day out, we will immensely appreciate him and forgive some of his occasional impatient and frustrated words
> or moves. By the same token, I also suspect that when he returns, he might immensely appreciate letting go of some of his responsibilities and be able to devote himself fully on some of the
> technical organization or tools of Salix which he does so amazingly well.
>
> * Here is the start of a list of things we need to tackle in Salix land at the moment. Please feel free to complete that list, give your opinion how to best go about it, or how you are already
> taking care of it.
>
> -> Cyrille has almost completely finished re-writting Salix Live Installer and need some help with its testing. Marc-Paul, you may also want to help re-read the new code?
> -> BTW, we actually need a testing department. It need to be organized from scratch with an actual person responsible among other things to design a definite protocol that testers will follow.
> Anyone?
> -> Cyrille also has his hands full with other aspects of the LiveCD, so he will need help with LiveClone, Marc Paul, if you want, Cyrille could tell you what needs to be done and you could start
> playing with it ;)
> -> If no one gets around to it before me, I'll keep maintaining LiloSetup and transform it in BootSetup (adding a Grub option to Lilo's one)
>
> While work is being done in the background on the Live CDs architecture, we need to advance on the 'regular' versions:
> -> Dimitris need help testing SalixKDE version which is basically ready for release, once it has been tested thoroughly.
> -> We have no one working on SalixLXDE yet. Anyone?
> -> I have heard nothing about SalixFluxbox. Kerd? Ax? Are you still working on it or would you like someone else to step in? If so, anyone?
> -> Salix Rat Poison ?
> -> Salix Mate ?
> -> We also need to keep current on security and bugfixes. Anyone would like to keep tabs of those?
> -> Anything else ?
>
> Just for information, Tomoki has started working on the 14.0 new documentation and we should see some of the early mock-up soon, that should be inspiring! Tomoki, don't hesitate to ask if you
> need specific help, for example from Tim, regarding the Ratpoison section or anyone else with anything else.
>
> That's all I can think of to get the ball rolling. BTW, I will be away for a few days (like usual), but I'll try to lurk in the evenings or pipe in a bit if I find some time, but I might not be
> around much until the end of next week.
>
> :-)
>
> Pierrick
>
> I
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

tsuren Tsuchiya
In reply to this post by Pierrick Le Brun
dear all,

Thanks, Pierrick for the email. Well, as you mentioned, i will do my part, updating the doc, of course. :) For the last version of SalixLXDE, i made a few packages, and gapan checked them before he finalised the lxde version. Of course, if someone else is interested in updating the packages, please do so.

best regards,

tomoki


Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:51:40 +0100
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Salix-main] So... what now?

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Since we all had a few days to ponder things we could now probably more calmly take stocks of our situation in the aftermath of the clash that occurred between George and Cyrille after the 'screwed up repo' episode.

After some extensive exchange with some of you, (including George and Cyrille) either by phone, chat or mail, here are in no specific order of importance some things that came to my mind. 

* George has been out of the scene now for a few days and has considered dropping the whole project. However after having invested in Salix many thousands of hours for many years in a row, this is not a decision anyone would take in a rush. I do not want to speak for George, but he is not particularly relishing that prospect and is not intent on taking such a decision lightly (George, if you read this, do feel free to correct or complete).

* Cyrille, is still very pissed by George's impatience and what to him feels like dictatorial unilateral moves and decisions.

* Quite honestly, I am very confident that they will both be able to talk things over and work things out together. I know for a fact that they both really appreciate each other so like in a family or a couple, sometimes sparkle may fly, but most time, everyone forgives and forget and keeps on being a family (ask my wife or kids, or yours  ;-) )

* Without both George and Cyrille, Salix wouldn't be Salix, period! Now this is true of course of many others of us too, but to some lesser degree, even if that is difficult to measure, I mean, it wouldn't get very far without extra packagers, translations, package testing, documentation, forum participation, servers, websites, etc... (and time would fail to speak of every single contribution, bigger or smaller, that helped make Salix what it has become through the years).

* Although we have a rather good technical organization with github, sourceforge, transifex, and some precise packaging tools, protocols, etc. we have a rather poor communication and basically no existing common roadmap.

* If I may be bold, this above point could be symptomatic of our classical leadership structure where everything rests on the shoulder of one 'providential man'. I mean no matter how providential he may be, I can only imagine how I could possibly maintain more than 600 packages, while being on top of every single security bugfix, contributing extensively to the forum, developing a few nifty utilities, staying sweet and calm when some calamities hit the repo and/or the forum, and constantly inspiring my team to contribute and work collectively. Let's face it, such a system is simply not viable and is bound to collapse one day, sooner or later.

* A year ago, I was in charge of organizing a new election for Salix project leader. For many reasons, I did not. This could actually turn out to be a good thing. In fact, the last thing I would want to do today is organizing an election and honestly I do not believe it is possible for any providential man to fulfill that role alone. Rather I would like to help our entire team reconnect and work in a collegial fashion. And since George will be out of the picture for a few more days (weeks?), we could in the meanwhile see how we can hold the fort together. That way once he is back, we will continue to do it together with him so that he does not feel that he has to do it all by himself, neither will anyone feel like he does everything unilaterally.

* I suspect that if we take on all the chores that he took care of silently day in and day out, we will immensely appreciate him and forgive some of his occasional impatient and frustrated words or moves. By the same token, I also suspect that when he returns, he might immensely appreciate letting go of some of his responsibilities and be able to devote himself fully on some of the technical organization or tools of Salix which he does so amazingly well.

* Here is the start of a list of things we need to tackle in Salix land at the moment. Please feel free to complete that list, give your opinion how to best go about it, or how you are already taking care of it.

-> Cyrille has almost completely finished re-writting Salix Live Installer and need some help with its testing. Marc-Paul, you may also want to help re-read the new code?
-> BTW, we actually need a testing department. It need to be organized from scratch with an actual person responsible among other things to design a definite protocol that testers will follow. Anyone?
-> Cyrille also has his hands full with other aspects of the LiveCD, so he will need help with LiveClone, Marc Paul, if you want, Cyrille could tell you what needs to be done and you could start playing with it ;)
-> If no one gets around to it before me, I'll keep maintaining LiloSetup and transform it in BootSetup (adding a Grub option to Lilo's one)

While work is being done in the background on the Live CDs architecture, we need to advance on the 'regular' versions:
-> Dimitris need help testing SalixKDE version which is basically ready for release, once it has been tested thoroughly.
-> We have no one working on SalixLXDE yet. Anyone?
-> I have heard nothing about SalixFluxbox. Kerd? Ax? Are you still working on it or would you like someone else to step in? If so, anyone?
-> Salix Rat Poison ?
-> Salix Mate ?
-> We also need to keep current on security and bugfixes. Anyone would like to keep tabs of those?
-> Anything else ?

Just for information, Tomoki has started working on the 14.0 new documentation and we should see some of the early mock-up soon, that should be inspiring! Tomoki, don't hesitate to ask if you need specific help, for example from Tim, regarding the Ratpoison section or anyone else with anything else.

That's all I can think of to get the ball rolling. BTW, I will be away for a few days (like usual), but I'll try to lurk in the evenings or pipe in a bit if I find some time, but I might not be around much until the end of next week.

:-)

Pierrick

I





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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

James Freer
In reply to this post by Pierrick Le Brun
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Pierrick Le Brun <[hidden email]> wrote:
> "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang
> separately."

As a newcomer to the distro i hope you won't mind my comments.

I think you should be proud of what you've achieved - it seems a very
nice version of xfce to me.

All distros seem to me to be going through a difficult time but one
flaw it seems to me is overlooked. For a couple of years it seems most
have been attempting to do too much. The successful ones seem to have
decided on two desktops say and stuck with them. Only so much time can
be spent by each developer. What about LXDE, Fluxbox, Rat Poison, and
Mate?

What did PV say about Slack a while back, dropping gnome... he had the
foresight i think to anticipate the work load and decided to leave it.
To spend time on gnome would have meant a reduction e.g. say in bug
fixing. can't haelp feeling that he applied the Unix philosophy "Do
one thing and do it well".

I hope it's appropriate to say concentrate on xfce and kde; build on
that with wiki documentation and the forum. Then in future with
perhaps some additional developers
an additional workload can be coped with. I wish i had developer
expertise but all i can offer is perhaps some documentation
preparation.

james

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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

Cyrille Pontvieux-2
In reply to this post by Pierrick Le Brun

Hi all !

First thing first : I'm not in war with George (or anyone else), and I don't think he is too. It was just an argue that could happen from time to time. And it's not that suprising as there were no many conversations from some time now.

I think yes we should go forward and better communicate.

For things to do, I'm still in the process of rewriting the Live installer. I have more works than expected last days, so I didn't advance as quick as I think I could (and I'm still learning Python, great language by the way !). The library is done apart from language/locale and timezone handling. After that I need to rewrite the main process. LiveClone development could therefore be done from this point. I hope Marc Paul and/or Fred will help me in these areas. If you, Pierrick, can migrate LiloSetup to BootSetup along the way, it will be very good!

I know a lot of people are waiting for this Live version. So I want to release it as soon as possible, but also as good as possible.

About other Salix edition, I'm interrested in helping having a LXDE edition, because I also like LXDE. For other edition I think 1. i'm not the right person to do it. 2. it will be too much work for me and it's not good to not delegate as we experienced. But I think a Ratpoison edition will not be complicated to make. The last one seems to have been greatly appreciated, so maybe just a recompilation (and tests) should be enough to have it. Am I wrong?

For KDE, the main work have already been done by Dimitris. So just checks/tests/minor corrections should be done I suppose. Same for Openbox.

For Maté, I really like it. But I don't know if there is still someone who wants to help making it. Is it? I hope it is. Please inform us if you want to help making a Maté edition of Salix 14.

About bugfixes, you're right Akuna! Someone has to be in charge of this. Tracking website and agregators about Linux security issues, and make internal reports for packagers to repackage to fix the known bugs. I think the person doing security tracking should not make packages himself/herself but just informing packagers. So the job will not take too much time and could be doable by one person (or maybe two). Is anyone reading this wanted to help in this domain?

About the last message of concentring only on Xfce and KDE and doing it well but not doing others DE, I think there is some truth and wrong in it. I think some lightweight DE could be done a Salix team, like LXDE, Openbox/Fluxbox, Ratpoison. Even Maté could be handled. But I agree that integrating Gnome3, Unity and the like will not be doable (and by the way I consider those DE in beta state, and Unity as being wrong by design on a PC, but that's just my opinion).

So please, respond if you think you can help or initiate in one of those subjects. Thanks.

P.S. Please George, come back :-)

 

Le 2013-01-27 11:51, Pierrick Le Brun a écrit :

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Since we all had a few days to ponder things we could now probably more calmly take stocks of our situation in the aftermath of the clash that occurred between George and Cyrille after the 'screwed up repo' episode.

After some extensive exchange with some of you, (including George and Cyrille) either by phone, chat or mail, here are in no specific order of importance some things that came to my mind. 

* George has been out of the scene now for a few days and has considered dropping the whole project. However after having invested in Salix many thousands of hours for many years in a row, this is not a decision anyone would take in a rush. I do not want to speak for George, but he is not particularly relishing that prospect and is not intent on taking such a decision lightly (George, if you read this, do feel free to correct or complete).

* Cyrille, is still very pissed by George's impatience and what to him feels like dictatorial unilateral moves and decisions.

* Quite honestly, I am very confident that they will both be able to talk things over and work things out together. I know for a fact that they both really appreciate each other so like in a family or a couple, sometimes sparkle may fly, but most time, everyone forgives and forget and keeps on being a family (ask my wife or kids, or yours  ;-) )

* Without both George and Cyrille, Salix wouldn't be Salix, period! Now this is true of course of many others of us too, but to some lesser degree, even if that is difficult to measure, I mean, it wouldn't get very far without extra packagers, translations, package testing, documentation, forum participation, servers, websites, etc... (and time would fail to speak of every single contribution, bigger or smaller, that helped make Salix what it has become through the years).

* Although we have a rather good technical organization with github, sourceforge, transifex, and some precise packaging tools, protocols, etc. we have a rather poor communication and basically no existing common roadmap.

* If I may be bold, this above point could be symptomatic of our classical leadership structure where everything rests on the shoulder of one 'providential man'. I mean no matter how providential he may be, I can only imagine how I could possibly maintain more than 600 packages, while being on top of every single security bugfix, contributing extensively to the forum, developing a few nifty utilities, staying sweet and calm when some calamities hit the repo and/or the forum, and constantly inspiring my team to contribute and work collectively. Let's face it, such a system is simply not viable and is bound to collapse one day, sooner or later.

* A year ago, I was in charge of organizing a new election for Salix project leader. For many reasons, I did not. This could actually turn out to be a good thing. In fact, the last thing I would want to do today is organizing an election and honestly I do not believe it is possible for any providential man to fulfill that role alone. Rather I would like to help our entire team reconnect and work in a collegial fashion. And since George will be out of the picture for a few more days (weeks?), we could in the meanwhile see how we can hold the fort together. That way once he is back, we will continue to do it together with him so that he does not feel that he has to do it all by himself, neither will anyone feel like he does everything unilaterally.

* I suspect that if we take on all the chores that he took care of silently day in and day out, we will immensely appreciate him and forgive some of his occasional impatient and frustrated words or moves. By the same token, I also suspect that when he returns, he might immensely appreciate letting go of some of his responsibilities and be able to devote himself fully on some of the technical organization or tools of Salix which he does so amazingly well.

* Here is the start of a list of things we need to tackle in Salix land at the moment. Please feel free to complete that list, give your opinion how to best go about it, or how you are already taking care of it.

-> Cyrille has almost completely finished re-writting Salix Live Installer and need some help with its testing. Marc-Paul, you may also want to help re-read the new code?
-> BTW, we actually need a testing department. It need to be organized from scratch with an actual person responsible among other things to design a definite protocol that testers will follow. Anyone?
-> Cyrille also has his hands full with other aspects of the LiveCD, so he will need help with LiveClone, Marc Paul, if you want, Cyrille could tell you what needs to be done and you could start playing with it ;)
-> If no one gets around to it before me, I'll keep maintaining LiloSetup and transform it in BootSetup (adding a Grub option to Lilo's one)

While work is being done in the background on the Live CDs architecture, we need to advance on the 'regular' versions:
-> Dimitris need help testing SalixKDE version which is basically ready for release, once it has been tested thoroughly.
-> We have no one working on SalixLXDE yet. Anyone?
-> I have heard nothing about SalixFluxbox. Kerd? Ax? Are you still working on it or would you like someone else to step in? If so, anyone?
-> Salix Rat Poison ?
-> Salix Mate ?
-> We also need to keep current on security and bugfixes. Anyone would like to keep tabs of those?
-> Anything else ?

Just for information, Tomoki has started working on the 14.0 new documentation and we should see some of the early mock-up soon, that should be inspiring! Tomoki, don't hesitate to ask if you need specific help, for example from Tim, regarding the Ratpoison section or anyone else with anything else.

That's all I can think of to get the ball rolling. BTW, I will be away for a few days (like usual), but I'll try to lurk in the evenings or pipe in a bit if I find some time, but I might not be around much until the end of next week.

:-)

Pierrick

I





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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

jayseye
Cyrille, I'm also still learning Python, while C and C++ are my strong
points. Being a native U.S. English speaker, I've managed to escape
working much with language/locale and timezone handling.

However I'm willing to help out, if you, Pierrick, and/or Fred can
point me in the right direction, and provide some detail as to what
exactly needs to be done. Thanks! Of the work mentioned, LiveClone
might be my main interest.

Regards,
Marc Paul Rubin (jayseye)

On 1/31/13, Cyrille Pontvieux <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The library is done
> apart from language/locale and timezone handling. After that I need to
> rewrite the main process. LiveClone development could therefore be done
> from this point. I hope Marc Paul and/or Fred will help me in these
> areas. If you, Pierrick, can migrate LiloSetup to BootSetup along the
> way, it will be very good!

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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

Dave Cantrell
In reply to this post by Cyrille Pontvieux-2
On 01/31/2013 05:15 PM, Cyrille Pontvieux wrote:
> About bugfixes, you're right Akuna! Someone has to be in charge of
> this. Tracking website and agregators about Linux security issues, and
> make internal reports for packagers to repackage to fix the known
> bugs. I think the person doing security tracking should not make
> packages himself/herself but just informing packagers. So the job will
> not take too much time and could be doable by one person (or maybe
> two). Is anyone reading this wanted to help in this domain?
While I do not have sufficient knowledge to help with the
coding/development of Salix or the packages, and would not feel
comfortable being the person that "...has to be in charge of this."
(again, due to a lack of knowledge), I would be more than willing to
help with the tracking the security aspects of Salix.  So, if whomever
is finally put in charge of this will keep me in mind and let me know,
it would be nice to be able to contribute something back to Salix after
all this time/use.
>
> P.S. Please George, come back :-)
>
Yes, please!  Pretty please, with sprinkles :)

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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

Frédéric Galusik
@JRD:
>I think yes we should go forward and better communicate
That's the point ;)
Good to read you, I thought you were in a cave or dead :P

@jayseye:
https://github.com/Akuna/LiveClone

@JRD:
For Maté, if we want to use the stable release, we have to use the 1.4
(13.37) release, and most pkgs are already done.
For Mate 1.5-1.6, read gapan in the slackware linuxquestions forum:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/mate-desktop-environment-packages-for-slackware-938148/page3.html

@Dave:
It will be very helpfull if you can handle this.
I think that guth can also be very helpful with that.

--fredg



2013/2/1 Dave Cantrell <[hidden email]>:

> On 01/31/2013 05:15 PM, Cyrille Pontvieux wrote:
>> About bugfixes, you're right Akuna! Someone has to be in charge of
>> this. Tracking website and agregators about Linux security issues, and
>> make internal reports for packagers to repackage to fix the known
>> bugs. I think the person doing security tracking should not make
>> packages himself/herself but just informing packagers. So the job will
>> not take too much time and could be doable by one person (or maybe
>> two). Is anyone reading this wanted to help in this domain?
> While I do not have sufficient knowledge to help with the
> coding/development of Salix or the packages, and would not feel
> comfortable being the person that "...has to be in charge of this."
> (again, due to a lack of knowledge), I would be more than willing to
> help with the tracking the security aspects of Salix.  So, if whomever
> is finally put in charge of this will keep me in mind and let me know,
> it would be nice to be able to contribute something back to Salix after
> all this time/use.
>>
>> P.S. Please George, come back :-)
>>
> Yes, please!  Pretty please, with sprinkles :)
>
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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

Dave Cantrell
On 02/01/2013 12:28 PM, Frédéric Galusik wrote:
> @Dave: It will be very helpfull if you can handle this. I think that
> guth can also be very helpful with that.
As I said before, my knowledge level is not that great at this time, so
if someone would be willing to mentor me in this endever (guth?
anyone?), I'd be more than will to take it on.  There will be a learning
curve, so expect questions :)

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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

jayseye
In reply to this post by Frédéric Galusik
Thanks for the link, fredg. Is there a ToDo list, or any other details
about what remains to be done? I checked, and have yet to find
anything relevant there.

On 2/1/13, Frédéric Galusik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> @jayseye:
> https://github.com/Akuna/LiveClone

Marc (jayseye)

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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

Frédéric Galusik
2013/2/1 jayseye <[hidden email]>:
> Thanks for the link, fredg. Is there a ToDo list, or any other details
> about what remains to be done? I checked, and have yet to find
> anything relevant there.
LiveClone have to be tested/adapted on the new Live Session.

--fredg
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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

Dimitris Tzemos
In reply to this post by Pierrick Le Brun

Pierrick, you said this "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

 

I joined the salix team because i liked some things. It was united, helpful. They were working like a family.

 

It is not the same anymore.

 

About the kde edition.

Packages are on repos.

Except user-settings, zzz-setings etc that are on package submittions and have been corrected (about firefox icon showing in menus) and can uploaded to repos.

So it is easy for anyone to make a kde edition.

Same for openbox.

 

Really i am not in a mood to continue. It is not fun anymore for me.

 

I hope you understand this.

So i am out till salix team become as it was before.

 

This is how i feel.

 

 

Στις Κυρ 27 Ιαν 2013 11:51:40 Pierrick Le Brun έγραψε:

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Since we all had a few days to ponder things we could now probably more calmly take stocks of our situation in the aftermath of the clash that occurred between George and Cyrille after the 'screwed up repo' episode.

After some extensive exchange with some of you, (including George and Cyrille) either by phone, chat or mail, here are in no specific order of importance some things that came to my mind. 

* George has been out of the scene now for a few days and has considered dropping the whole project. However after having invested in Salix many thousands of hours for many years in a row, this is not a decision anyone would take in a rush. I do not want to speak for George, but he is not particularly relishing that prospect and is not intent on taking such a decision lightly (George, if you read this, do feel free to correct or complete).

* Cyrille, is still very pissed by George's impatience and what to him feels like dictatorial unilateral moves and decisions.

* Quite honestly, I am very confident that they will both be able to talk things over and work things out together. I know for a fact that they both really appreciate each other so like in a family or a couple, sometimes sparkle may fly, but most time, everyone forgives and forget and keeps on being a family (ask my wife or kids, or yours  ;-) )

* Without both George and Cyrille, Salix wouldn't be Salix, period! Now this is true of course of many others of us too, but to some lesser degree, even if that is difficult to measure, I mean, it wouldn't get very far without extra packagers, translations, package testing, documentation, forum participation, servers, websites, etc... (and time would fail to speak of every single contribution, bigger or smaller, that helped make Salix what it has become through the years).

* Although we have a rather good technical organization with github, sourceforge, transifex, and some precise packaging tools, protocols, etc. we have a rather poor communication and basically no existing common roadmap.

* If I may be bold, this above point could be symptomatic of our classical leadership structure where everything rests on the shoulder of one 'providential man'. I mean no matter how providential he may be, I can only imagine how I could possibly maintain more than 600 packages, while being on top of every single security bugfix, contributing extensively to the forum, developing a few nifty utilities, staying sweet and calm when some calamities hit the repo and/or the forum, and constantly inspiring my team to contribute and work collectively. Let's face it, such a system is simply not viable and is bound to collapse one day, sooner or later.

* A year ago, I was in charge of organizing a new election for Salix project leader. For many reasons, I did not. This could actually turn out to be a good thing. In fact, the last thing I would want to do today is organizing an election and honestly I do not believe it is possible for any providential man to fulfill that role alone. Rather I would like to help our entire team reconnect and work in a collegial fashion. And since George will be out of the picture for a few more days (weeks?), we could in the meanwhile see how we can hold the fort together. That way once he is back, we will continue to do it together with him so that he does not feel that he has to do it all by himself, neither will anyone feel like he does everything unilaterally.

* I suspect that if we take on all the chores that he took care of silently day in and day out, we will immensely appreciate him and forgive some of his occasional impatient and frustrated words or moves. By the same token, I also suspect that when he returns, he might immensely appreciate letting go of some of his responsibilities and be able to devote himself fully on some of the technical organization or tools of Salix which he does so amazingly well.

* Here is the start of a list of things we need to tackle in Salix land at the moment. Please feel free to complete that list, give your opinion how to best go about it, or how you are already taking care of it.

-> Cyrille has almost completely finished re-writting Salix Live Installer and need some help with its testing. Marc-Paul, you may also want to help re-read the new code?
-> BTW, we actually need a testing department. It need to be organized from scratch with an actual person responsible among other things to design a definite protocol that testers will follow. Anyone?
-> Cyrille also has his hands full with other aspects of the LiveCD, so he will need help with LiveClone, Marc Paul, if you want, Cyrille could tell you what needs to be done and you could start playing with it ;)
-> If no one gets around to it before me, I'll keep maintaining LiloSetup and transform it in BootSetup (adding a Grub option to Lilo's one)

While work is being done in the background on the Live CDs architecture, we need to advance on the 'regular' versions:
-> Dimitris need help testing SalixKDE version which is basically ready for release, once it has been tested thoroughly.
-> We have no one working on SalixLXDE yet. Anyone?
-> I have heard nothing about SalixFluxbox. Kerd? Ax? Are you still working on it or would you like someone else to step in? If so, anyone?
-> Salix Rat Poison ?
-> Salix Mate ?
-> We also need to keep current on security and bugfixes. Anyone would like to keep tabs of those?
-> Anything else ?

Just for information, Tomoki has started working on the 14.0 new documentation and we should see some of the early mock-up soon, that should be inspiring! Tomoki, don't hesitate to ask if you need specific help, for example from Tim, regarding the Ratpoison section or anyone else with anything else.

That's all I can think of to get the ball rolling. BTW, I will be away for a few days (like usual), but I'll try to lurk in the evenings or pipe in a bit if I find some time, but I might not be around much until the end of next week.

:-)

Pierrick

I







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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

jayseye
In reply to this post by Frédéric Galusik
While I really would like to help, more specific details and some
guidance are required for me to make a useful contribution; even to
know where to begin.

Is there some developer documentation which would provide insight for
this particular task? Thanks!


Regards,
Marc (jayseye)

On 2/2/13, Frédéric Galusik <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2013/2/1 jayseye <[hidden email]>:
>> Thanks for the link, fredg. Is there a ToDo list, or any other details
>> about what remains to be done? I checked, and have yet to find
>> anything relevant there.
> LiveClone have to be tested/adapted on the new Live Session.
>
> --fredg

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Re: [Salix-main] So... what now?

Pierrick Le Brun
In reply to this post by Dimitris Tzemos
Hi Dimitris,

I am puzzled. because although I can understand your feeling, and will certainly respect your decision, I feel that for 'Salix team to become as it was before' would be very possible but only if we all give it a fair try.

In any case, sincere thanks for all your hard work, Salix probably benefited from your hard work as much as Slackel benefited from Salix, SaLT and the Live Tools.

Hope to see you around sooner than later.

Pierrick


Le 02/02/2013 11:34, Dimitris Tzemos a écrit :

 

Really i am not in a mood to continue. It is not fun anymore for me.

 

I hope you understand this.

So i am out till salix team become as it was before.

 

This is how i feel.

 




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