[Salix-main] GHC package

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[Salix-main] GHC package

Tim Beech
I've been making a package for GHC (the Haskell compiler). The one
currently in the repos has an error with the location of docs (easily
fixed); but like the SlackBuild, it isn't actually a "build" at all,
just an unpacked binary distribution.

To build GHC you have to have GHC. The approach currently taken in my
package is to unpack that bindist first, then build GHC on top of it.
However, I'm having some trouble because at one stage or another, the
"bootstrapping" build looks for a truly installed GHC and doesn't find
it. In other words, at some point it forgets it should be looking in a relative path
within the build tree.

The reason must be that no-one in Haskell land is concerned to jump
through hoops to ensure the purity of a package. The GHC packages from
other distros I've looked at (Arch and SUSE) don't even go that far,
they just assume GHC is present. (That's why I haven't been able to crib
their solution ;))

There are also a couple of libraries that need to be provided in old
versions for the bindist (gmp and libffi); that's what gave me the idea
for *-devel packages. SUSE at least does it that way in this case, IIRC.

What some Other Distros do is create separate packages as needed for
building in situations like this - for instance, gmp-devel, ghc-devel.
These would be mentioned in the build script as build deps, but needn't
then bother the user who just wants to install the package.

I haven't ever come across anything like this in Salix. Is it a
legitimate approach?

The alternative - apart from carrying on tinkering - would be to revert
to the binary distribution, and I can now understand why that's what's
on offer from src. But the performance of a true build is better (as
testing confirmed, and as one would expect). Such a build is also fully
reproducible, just not in the normal way. So it does seem like an
attractive option.

Tim

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Re: [Salix-main] GHC package

George Vlahavas
Tim,

you'd better contact mimosa in the forums. He's already packaged ghc for salix 14.0 and as far as I know he's also working on an updated package.


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:34 AM, tim.beech <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've been making a package for GHC (the Haskell compiler). The one
currently in the repos has an error with the location of docs (easily
fixed); but like the SlackBuild, it isn't actually a "build" at all,
just an unpacked binary distribution.

To build GHC you have to have GHC. The approach currently taken in my
package is to unpack that bindist first, then build GHC on top of it.
However, I'm having some trouble because at one stage or another, the
"bootstrapping" build looks for a truly installed GHC and doesn't find
it. In other words, at some point it forgets it should be looking in a relative path
within the build tree.

The reason must be that no-one in Haskell land is concerned to jump
through hoops to ensure the purity of a package. The GHC packages from
other distros I've looked at (Arch and SUSE) don't even go that far,
they just assume GHC is present. (That's why I haven't been able to crib
their solution ;))

There are also a couple of libraries that need to be provided in old
versions for the bindist (gmp and libffi); that's what gave me the idea
for *-devel packages. SUSE at least does it that way in this case, IIRC.

What some Other Distros do is create separate packages as needed for
building in situations like this - for instance, gmp-devel, ghc-devel.
These would be mentioned in the build script as build deps, but needn't
then bother the user who just wants to install the package.

I haven't ever come across anything like this in Salix. Is it a
legitimate approach?

The alternative - apart from carrying on tinkering - would be to revert
to the binary distribution, and I can now understand why that's what's
on offer from src. But the performance of a true build is better (as
testing confirmed, and as one would expect). Such a build is also fully
reproducible, just not in the normal way. So it does seem like an
attractive option.

Tim

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Re: [Salix-main] GHC package

Tim Beech
George,

I *am* mimosa in the forums!

Basically I'm inclined to do what everyone else does and ignore the
bootstrapping problem - perhaps documenting it in the SLKBUILD. But
since this goes against normal procedure, and so does the other working
alternative so far (*-devel package(s)), I thought I'd better raise the
issue here.

The third alternative - which doesn't yet work - is to deal with the
bootstrap inside the SLKBUILD. But this is only apparently "purer",
because the unpacked binary distribution against which the packaged GHC
is then built is just that, a precompiled binary with some tweaks to
make it work "anywhere"; and that's all that's provided by the
SlackBuild (and my existing package).

Clark Kent

On Wed, 19 Dec 2012, George Vlahavas wrote:

> Tim,
> you'd better contact mimosa in the forums. He's already packaged ghc for salix 14.0 and as far as I know he's also working on an updated package.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:34 AM, tim.beech <[hidden email]> wrote:
>       I've been making a package for GHC (the Haskell compiler). The one
>       currently in the repos has an error with the location of docs (easily
>       fixed); but like the SlackBuild, it isn't actually a "build" at all,
>       just an unpacked binary distribution.
>
>       To build GHC you have to have GHC. The approach currently taken in my
>       package is to unpack that bindist first, then build GHC on top of it.
>       However, I'm having some trouble because at one stage or another, the
>       "bootstrapping" build looks for a truly installed GHC and doesn't find
>       it. In other words, at some point it forgets it should be looking in a relative path
>       within the build tree.
>
>       The reason must be that no-one in Haskell land is concerned to jump
>       through hoops to ensure the purity of a package. The GHC packages from
>       other distros I've looked at (Arch and SUSE) don't even go that far,
>       they just assume GHC is present. (That's why I haven't been able to crib
>       their solution ;))
>
>       There are also a couple of libraries that need to be provided in old
>       versions for the bindist (gmp and libffi); that's what gave me the idea
>       for *-devel packages. SUSE at least does it that way in this case, IIRC.
>
>       What some Other Distros do is create separate packages as needed for
>       building in situations like this - for instance, gmp-devel, ghc-devel.
>       These would be mentioned in the build script as build deps, but needn't
>       then bother the user who just wants to install the package.
>
>       I haven't ever come across anything like this in Salix. Is it a
>       legitimate approach?
>
>       The alternative - apart from carrying on tinkering - would be to revert
>       to the binary distribution, and I can now understand why that's what's
>       on offer from src. But the performance of a true build is better (as
>       testing confirmed, and as one would expect). Such a build is also fully
>       reproducible, just not in the normal way. So it does seem like an
>       attractive option.
>
>       Tim
>
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>       [hidden email]
>       https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/salix-main
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Salix-main] GHC package

George Vlahavas
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 9:16 PM, tim.beech <[hidden email]> wrote:
George,

I *am* mimosa in the forums!

LOL, then you should contact yourself and find an agreement soon as well! :D

Sorry about that, I didn't pay much attention. 
 
Basically I'm inclined to do what everyone else does and ignore the
bootstrapping problem - perhaps documenting it in the SLKBUILD. But
since this goes against normal procedure, and so does the other working
alternative so far (*-devel package(s)), I thought I'd better raise the
issue here.

The third alternative - which doesn't yet work - is to deal with the
bootstrap inside the SLKBUILD. But this is only apparently "purer",
because the unpacked binary distribution against which the packaged GHC
is then built is just that, a precompiled binary with some tweaks to
make it work "anywhere"; and that's all that's provided by the
SlackBuild (and my existing package).


Why do I think that we already talked about this someplace else? I think I had suggested that you just do what is simplest and just make a note about what extra work needs to be done as a comment in the SLKBUILD. If the comment gets too big, then just put a note in the SLKBUILD that will point to a README.bootstrap file in /usr/doc/... that will hold the text that describes the entire bootstrapping procedure.

Actually, I'm not at all familiar with haskell, so my question is: what would be the advantage of replacing the package we already have in the repositories? If it's just to build it in a "purer" way or whatever like that, it isn't worth the trouble.
 

Clark Kent

Lex Luthor 

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Re: [Salix-main] GHC package

Tim Beech
> Why do I think that we already talked about this someplace else?

Déjà vu. I'm sure we've been here before.

>I think I had suggested that
> you just do what is simplest and just make a note about what extra work needs to be done as a
> comment in the SLKBUILD. If the comment gets too big, then just put a note in the SLKBUILD that
> will point to a README.bootstrap file in /usr/doc/... that will hold the text that describes
> the entire bootstrapping procedure.

OK


> Actually, I'm not at all familiar with haskell, so my question is: what would be the advantage
> of replacing the package we already have in the repositories? If it's just to build it in a
> "purer" way or whatever like that, it isn't worth the trouble.
>  
>

It's a functionally better build as shown by running the testsuite
(three failures as against 13) and this is also what the people at GHC
recommend you to do if you just want to use it in private. However, I'm
not sure whether even consenting adults will notice the difference. I think it
might get added it to the (short) list of available GHC packages, which would
be a bit of kudos for Salix. And on a personal note, after spending so
much time in the company of this particular brick wall, there is a
perverse satisfaction in ending up with a package that simply does

./configure
make
make install

just as the kind people at GHC have been telling me all along.

>       Clark Kent
>
>
> Lex Luthor 
>

Judge Dredd

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Re: [Salix-main] GHC package

George Vlahavas
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 10:42 PM, tim.beech <[hidden email]> wrote:
Why do I think that we already talked about this someplace else?

Déjà vu. I'm sure we've been here before.

 
Sure, but did we think we had been here before when we did?

It's a functionally better build as shown by running the testsuite
(three failures as against 13) and this is also what the people at GHC
recommend you to do if you just want to use it in private. However, I'm
not sure whether even consenting adults will notice the difference. I think it
might get added it to the (short) list of available GHC packages, which would
be a bit of kudos for Salix. And on a personal note, after spending so
much time in the company of this particular brick wall, there is a
perverse satisfaction in ending up with a package that simply does

./configure
make
make install

just as the kind people at GHC have been telling me all along.

OK, I can understand that. Adding Salix to the list of GHC packages would be nice. :)
 

      Clark Kent


Lex Luthor 


Judge Dredd
 
Mary Poppins

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[Salix-main] Wishes

Dimitris Tzemos
In reply to this post by George Vlahavas
I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONyXSnL2LtA

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Re: [Salix-main] Wishes

George Vlahavas
Merry Christmas everyone and a happy new year!

On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Dimitris Tzemos <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONyXSnL2LtA
>
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Re: [Salix-main] Wishes

Mattia Tristo
Many Thanks, i and my family wish you a marry Christmas too!!!

Happy Holidays and a wish of good Linux in Public Amministration to all
ZioMattia


2012/12/25 George Vlahavas <[hidden email]>
Merry Christmas everyone and a happy new year!

On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Dimitris Tzemos <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONyXSnL2LtA
>
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